Transcript of extended schools hotseat
Elsie: How can a primary school, though eager and willing, hope to offer extended services to the community when it is already short of space for its everyday teaching needs?
Jean McEntire: Thank you for your question Elsie. Extended schools are about schools providing access to extended services, in partnership with local voluntary and private providers. There is no expectation that all these services will be on the school site as this is not practical, especially for small primary schools. In addition schools may wish to provide extended services as part of a network of local schools, with shared facilities, or act as a link to services provided in other locations such as childminders.
Jean Laurie: Despite DfES and DfT guidance, local authorities are struggling with how extended schools provision provides an opportunity to reduce a) the school-run and b) home-to-school transport costs. The latter is often their second biggest budget-heading after teachers' salaries and more effective use of home-to-school transport would release funding to be spent on education. How does the DfES intend to ensure schools take transport for pupils into account when planning extended-hours provision?
Jean McEntire: I fully understand the difficulties for local authorities in arranging transport for extended services. However, I would stress that schools should not be developing their extended services in isolation from the local authority, or indeed from other schools. Communication and cooperation are key to making extended services a success and it is important that all those involved are fully informed about developments in order to enable effective planning.
Alison Jones: Isn�t �extended services� just another way for the �nanny state� to look after our children so we can spend less time with them, and more time donating tax, etc. to the Treasury?
Jean McEntire: No, I don�t believe that extended services are part of the �nanny state�. The services are provided for those who either need them or feel they will be helpful. There is no requirement for pupils or parents to use the extended services if they do not wish to. I should also say that the core offer is not just about childcare but about providing after-school activities in sports, arts and crafts as well as study support. Most of these activities have been provided in some form by schools for many years � they simply now fall under the umbrella of extended services. There is evidence that participation in extended services can improve children�s motivation, behaviour, confidence and so attainment at school.
Nick Hopkinson: I am trying to understand the requirement to register our out-of-school club, which caters for children from five up. It is staffed by experienced classroom assistants, the same people who look after the children during school. Yet it seems that because they do not have the right NVQ childcare qualification, they are not good enough. Can this be so?
Jean McEntire: The classroom assistants are carrying out different roles in two different settings. During the school day they are not in sole charge of the children, but are supervised by a qualified teacher. The after-school club equally needs to be supervised by an appropriately qualified manager. I understand that currently this is a level 3 qualification appropriate to the post.
Peter Munn: Issues of stigma and discrimination, often resulting in bullying and mental distress, exist in schools. Is there some way we can tap into resources that will enable us to work in schools? We need to develop counseling-type services for young people to enable them to talk confidentially about their problems. How can this be done?
Jean McEntire: A vital part of the development of extended services provision is the consultation by schools and local authorities with their pupils, parents and community. It is this consultation process which should drive the provision of services and this has already led to counseling/stress-management services being developed by schools.
Extended services are key to embedding the ECM agenda and the fact that they enable schools to work more closely with colleagues from other agencies enable the provision of effective counseling services. Multi-agency working can also help staff identify underlying causes that could be prompting such damaging behaviour.
Of course all schools should already have anti-bullying policies in place and Ofsted as part of their inspection regime will ask pupils and parents how well they think their school deals with bullying.
Joe Thurwood, Leigh on Sea, Essex: We are very interested in making money for primary schools. We have set up a company filming children as a school yearbook. Our company is completely set up but we have trouble getting into schools to demonstrate the company. How can I get access to PTA or School Governors to demonstrate our idea?
Jean McEntire: There are many avenues available to advertise to schools, through publications aimed at the head teachers, governors, teaching staff and PTAs.
Anon: We are a primary school who let part of the premises to an after-school group, run be a committee of volunteers. The staff are paid, but all profit is ploughed back into the group. We charge a normal letting fee, but the committee are asking that they have a reduced rent, or no rent at all, as they are doing us a favour, running an after-school club - I personally agree with their point of view. The head says that County demand that they pay rent just like any other group that might hire the premises. Is there anyway of the committee getting help to pay the rent, or the school getting help to make up for the loss of income, should we waive the rent. These are the basic facts and I have only just started to look into the problem, so there may be more I can find out from school, but as I saw this forum advertised I thought I would pose my question to you.
Jean McEntire: I understand your sentiments and those of the after-school club, however, this is not a no-cost situation to the school. The fact that the facilities are in use mean that there are costs such as: heating, lighting, caretaking, insurance and general wear and tear to consider. The rental cost charged to the after-school club is for these costs.
The delegated budget the school receives from its local authority is to meet the costs of running the school during the school day and may only be used in limited circumstances to fund extended services and only then if the service is provided direct by the school. It would, therefore, not be appropriate for the school to use its delegated budget to subsidise the after-school club.
The Government does not expect all provision made available under the extended services agenda to be provided free of charge. Schools will need to develop charging policies to cover the range of extended services they provide. Even if the school took control of the after-hours club, therefore, it would need to ensure that it was self-funding.
Anon: I am the FSES Guidance Director of New Brompton College in Gillingham, we are a fully extended school. My team are making a real difference to the wellbeing of the students at this school, measurable in a number of ways, not least by our improving results and reputation within the community. My question is this: the funding finishes at the end of 2008, we are just beginning to see real benefit. What comes next? Or is the whole infrastructure going to implode without the significant funding we currently access? Why isn�t FSES mandatory and funded long term?
Jean McEntire: I fully appreciate your concerns and am aware that funding remains for many people one of the main stumbling blocks in developing and operating extended services. It would be wonderful if they could all be funded free of charge indefinitely, but as ever there is a finite budget.
The Government has made clear that extended services need to be self-sustaining and where appropriate charges levied for the use of those services. My understanding is that the funding provided for full-service extended schools was for development costs and schools/local authorities were expected to build-in funding sustainability. I recognise that this is easier said than done, especially if previous funding enabled them to be provided at no cost to users.
The Government�s review of school funding will take place during 2007 and so it is likely to be at least a year before your college is notified of funding for April 2008 onwards. I can only recommend that the College does not wait for the outcome of the Government�s review and carries out its own audit of service provision and funding requirements as soon as possible. This will give the College time to investigate alternative funding provision and if necessary consult about revisions to its charging policy.
The College can meet some of the costs of its extended services from its delegated budget and the DfES has published guidance on this issue.
�Planning and funding extended schools� can be downloaded from www.teachernet.gov.uk/extendedschools or ordered through DfES publications � tel: 0845 60 222 60, reference: 0472-2006DOC-EN.
Terry: Is there any good information out there on this subject?
Jean McEntire: Terry, a good starting point is TeacherNet�s extended schools section - in particular the extended schools prospectus which can be downloaded from that website.
- TeacherNet: extended schools
In addition, there is a guidance document specifically for school governors: Extended Schools � A Guide for Governors I, this is available to download from the NGA�s website.
You may also like to visit the TDA�s extended schools website.
Jenny Turner: In relation to the core offer of wrap-around childcare from 8-6, will children who attend the before-school or after-school childcare facilities be given many free play-opportunities such as playing outdoors when ever they choose to, building tree-houses, making dens or what ever they wish to do in that time? And will these facilities be staffed by trained and experienced playworkers or will they be run by staff from a nursery nurse or school/educational background?
Jean McEntire: Yes, the Government has stressed that activities should include time for free play as this is how children begin to explore and make sense of the world around them and learn important social skills. Staff will need to be trained and will come from a variety of backgrounds.
Gill Beagent: Where a school elects to use the Voluntary Committee model to manage its extended services, could you clarify where overall responsibility and accountability would lie? My understanding is that this can be decided by the governing body and they could still maintain overall responsibility or this could be passed to the Voluntary Committee.
Jean McEntire: Overall responsibility ultimately lies with the governing body, the governing body can delegate functions to a committee to enable them to provide an efficient leadership role. For further information on this have a look at the document called Extended schools- A guide for governors. You'll find it on the NGA website, www.nga.org.uk, in the what's new section.
Charles Rogers, Stantonbury Campus: My question about extended services is really about the issue of sustainability - many schools I am sure support the rationale behind extended services but question the extent to which real services can be provided without imposing a significant burden in the longer term on school finances and staff time. I accept the points made about partnerships and clusters - I remain to be convinced that schools won't face the burdens I mentioned.
Jean McEntire: Extended schools should be developed within the context of workforce remodelling. So that appropriate staff can take a role here without burdening teachers and heads. It's important for financial sustainability to devise a realistic charging policy, based on consultation with users, see TeacherNet's model policy www.teachernet.gov.uk and look under charging for school activities in the A to Z section. You might be surprised at what families are prepared to pay for; in fact some schools have found that their take-up has increased after they've introduced charging. See Planning and funding extended schools for further guidance. Also ask your local authority for help. Finally, sustainability will depend on working collaboratively with the local authority and local providers. You can't do it all yourself!
Lorraine Manford: Governors are concerned about their responsibility for sustainability of children-centre services if funding ceases in 2008. Do you have any advice or suggestions around this? Governors are concerned about their responsibility for outside agencies working within the school. Can you offer any clarity on this?
Jean McEntire: Please see the earlier question and answer for the funding part of your question. The importance of other agencies working within your school is to extend the range of expertise both with children and business management of services. Governors need to ensure that they have proper written agreements with other agencies that clearly define accountabilities and expectations. Please see the earlier question and answer for the funding part of your question. The importance of other agencies working within your school is to extend the range of expertise both with children and business-management of services. Governors need to ensure that they have proper written agreements with other agencies that clearly define accountabilities and expectations.
Administrator: Thank you very much for joining Jean McEntire to discuss extended services on today�s hotseat.
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